Richard's Thoughts on 2025

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
A government aggregation of data for the largest economy in the world is of less significance than 'the vast majority of people [you personally] see'? Sure, good luck with that. It's cute that you've convinced yourself that your observations are universally applicable.

You're missing the point. You think the primary profession for people who are using camera equipment is a photographer. I'm not doubting the statistics for photographers. But if you are spending thousands of dollars a year on camera equipment making podcasts or Youtube vidoes you are not reporting to the government that you are a photographer. Again is T0ny Northrup a Photographer when he has 1.6M subscribers on Youtuber and that is where he makes his money?

Also curious as to why if I type T0ny Northrups name correctly it changes it "tool" when I post?

neuroanatomist said:
The complaints are primarily from some of those YouTubers you think are so important. Wait, let me guess...you have the full demographic information on who is buying the R1 and A1III...probably your YouTuber friends told you all about it.

In terms of the future of the industy I'm listening to the Executives of the companies:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1...stry-according-to-the-people-who-make-cameras

If there's a single theme virtually every leader in the industry can agree on, it's that video is a significant growth driver for the market. Video content is everywhere, and the expectation is that video – whether used by TikTok creators or international media brands – is the best hope of driving the market.

Camera companies see video use growing across all categories of users, but there's one segment they're all laser-focused on: creators. I couldn't get through five minutes of conversation without hearing the word 'creator.'

But what, exactly, is a 'creator?' At a basic level, it's someone who uses a camera to create content for public sharing. But let's be clear about what the camera companies mean when they talk about targeting 'creators': Gen Z and teenagers. I'm not just speculating; they straight up told me that in multiple conversations. Camera companies see this demographic as a critical market for the future, and there's a land grab going on to attract these users in their formative years to create brand loyalists.

And here's the thing about Youtube. You don't have to speculate you can simply look. Here is the video of a kid who's under 30 who walking through his "gear cage" with over hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear.

https://youtu.be/6QUeGjhZvAk?si=TyUeS383JG05SNnz

And as I mentioned before the sales in America, Euorpe and Japan are up only 4% collectively and China is reasong for most of the growth up 24%. From Canon's own financial statements:

This year, the interchangeable-lens camera market is expected to be 6.1 million units, slightlyhigher than last year, due to the active promotions by each company to stimulate demandand the growing demand among young people in China.

In China, we are seeing growth due to very strong demand for cameras among young people. As a result of this and other factors, the camera market has been growing morethan we, including competitors, initially expected. However, as competition intensifiesto expand sales volume, it has become necessary to invest in sales promotion. We expectthis trend to continue or become more severe in the fourth quarter during the year-endselling season.

So the growth of the industry doesn't seem to be hobbyist upgrading but rather young people (primarily in China). And that sales increase is for ILC's. China is actually down for fixed lens cameras and up 29% for ILC's.

This also highlights our on going debate about market share with my point being that Canon's strategy is to buy market share through discounts. This is why you see Canon maintaining market share while losing ground on the revenue front. Maybe it pays off and they convert the next generation of Canon loyal fans. But at the same time everywhere but China is essentially flat and the real growth is in selling these cameras at increasingly higher prices.

With China manufacturers knocking at the door and AI on the rise the future for the industry will definitely be interesting.

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

David - Sydney said:
There is no doubt that Canon etc are focused on hybrid cameras and they don't show up as dedicated video cameras. Phones are good for video in good light and used for a lot of content. The question is what their next purchase is to improve their content quality. Video is getting more eyeballs whether tiktok or instagram.

I have the impression that the Powershot V10 just hasn't had the cut through that as it should have. Not sure if it is the unusual form factor or not.

I believe that Canon should have a G series powershot and/or R200 with no EFV which has good thermal controls to address this market.
I've used some Sony lowish end gear and they just overheat for streaming where there isn't good air conditioning which is really annoying.

The V10 was a bust due to the small sensor and fixed lens. If you look at sales the R50 actually does decent. Here is a video comparing the R50 to the more popular ZV-E10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi4vKvyIhD0

The Sony shooter admits that the R50 has better quality. The issue is that because the Sony mount is open, for someone starting out there is simply way more options at better prices. Now that Canon has allowed third party apsc lenses I think that can make decent strides. Drop the EVF, add a funtioning hot shoe and let third party lens makers crank out cheap lenses.

And of course they need to collaborate with Youtube creators more as this is where these people learn about these products. I think most people here are used to the old days where you go to a camera store, look at the cameras and talk to the sales rep. Maybe you did a bit of research online or on a forum

Young people don't buy like that anymore. They first hear about brands through social media. Then if they want to buy something the first thing they are going to do is go to youtube and type in "best camera for $XXXX that does YYYY". After watching dozens of videos they are going to purchase the product online and have it deliverd to their house.

David - Sydney · Dec 9, 2024

CJaurelius said:
With China manufacturers knocking at the door and AI on the rise the future for the industry will definitely be interesting.

Yeah, nah... not a short or probably medium term issue.... my AUD0.02

After 25 years of car manufacturing for the domestic market with foreign company JVs/technology transfer, the local companies are now becoming globally competitive in their own right but that hasn't happened for cameras.
I get that DJI has some good products in the action cam and basically own the drone market but I'm not buying the rest of it.

If there was an existential crisis with China taking over the camera market then the Japanese companies would combine to negate it. China is still being held back for higher end technologies whether chip manufacturing or AI etc and cameras have some high tech in sensors and processor/algorithms.

Chinese companies have not been able to compete effectively against Samsung/google and Apple for phones/cameras and they have tried pretty hard.

They have nailed the solar cell/battery and rare earth minerals market but there is starting to be a big backlash for car dumping due to subsidies and China has already flexed their muscle for rare earth minerals. They showed the world that they were happy to restrict Australian imports of wine, seafood and coal before covid due to the local government making comments after covid so the warning signs are there.
Just like investing in local semiconductor fabs for domestic security due to Taiwan and covid shortages, the same will happen for rare minerals with Australia probably the winner there even if the cost is much higher than China.

The Chinese social pact is that they will give up their security/information etc for prosperity and stability. They managed to contain sentiment during covid but have some big headwinds on the property side lately. Big tariffs will hurt everyone but disproportionately China. Sentiment will be an inflection point and will be painful.

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

CJaurelius said:
You're missing the point. You think the primary profession for people who are using camera equipment is a photographer. I'm not doubting the statistics for photographers. But if you are spending thousands of dollars a year on camera equipment making podcasts or Youtube vidoes you are not reporting to the government that you are a photographer. Again is T0ny Northrup a Photographer when he has 1.6M subscribers on Youtuber and that is where he makes his money?

Also curious as to why if I type T0ny Northrups name correctly it changes it "tool" when I post?

In terms of the future of the industy I'm listening to the Executives of the companies:

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1...stry-according-to-the-people-who-make-cameras

And here's the thing about Youtube. You don't have to speculate you can simply look. Here is the video of a kid who's under 30 who walking through his "gear cage" with over hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear.

https://youtu.be/6QUeGjhZvAk?si=TyUeS383JG05SNnz

And as I mentioned before the sales in America, Euorpe and Japan are up only 4% collectively and China is reasong for most of the growth up 24%. From Canon's own financial statements:

So the growth of the industry doesn't seem to be hobbyist upgrading but rather young people (primarily in China). And that sales increase is for ILC's. China is actually down for fixed lens cameras and up 29% for ILC's.

This also highlights our on going debate about market share with my point being that Canon's strategy is to buy market share through discounts. This is why you see Canon maintaining market share while losing ground on the revenue front. Maybe it pays off and they convert the next generation of Canon loyal fans. But at the same time everywhere but China is essentially flat and the real growth is in selling these cameras at increasingly higher prices.

With China manufacturers knocking at the door and AI on the rise the future for the industry will definitely be interesting.

Yes, yes…we’ve trodden this muddy ground before and you keep repeating your anecdotes.

Not arguing about the importance of content creation for future sales, that’s obvious. But Canon sells a few million cameras per year, and you’re talking about hundreds of buyers and giving examples of a few people you’ve seen on the Internet that spend tons of money on gear.

If you want to keep believing that anecdotes are the same as data, you go right ahead.

Incidentally, the average salary for a YouTuber is reported as $68K/yr, a bit less than that of the highest paid segment of professional photographers (arts/entertainment at $75K/yr). Again, not a revenue stream that supports tens of thousands of dollars of gear purchases. That’s the difference between data and anecdotes.

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
If you want to keep believing that anecdotes are the same as data, you go right ahead.

I would consider statements from the Executives of these companies as anecdotal.

neuroanatomist said:
Incidentally, the average salary for a YouTuber is reported as $68K/yr, a bit less than that of the highest paid segment of professional photographers (arts/entertainment at $75K/yr). Again, not a revenue stream that supports tens of thousands of dollars of gear purchases. That’s the difference between data and anecdotes.

As usually you are missing the plot. Sure there are going to a range of incomes. However if you are a Youtuber/Content Creator, whether you are successful or not you need.....camera equipment.

If you are making $68k/yr making youtube videos then paying a couple thousand more for an R5 instead of an R6 is going seems pretty resonable. And again after you take the tax deduction upgrading from an R5 to and R5mii will cost you maybe $2000. If your upgrading every 2 - 4 years your only paying $500 - $1000 a year to have the latest and greatest.

The fact that you think Youtube and social media is some obscure entity is wild. Less than half of Gen Z watches broadcast television. And again, these companies are explicity stating they are going after this market.

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

David - Sydney said:
Yeah, nah... not a short or probably medium term issue.... my AUD0.02

After 25 years of car manufacturing for the domestic market with foreign company JVs/technology transfer, the local companies are now becoming globally competitive in their own right but that hasn't happened for cameras.
I get that DJI has some good products in the action cam and basically own the drone market but I'm not buying the rest of it.

First I would point you to the Chinese camera lens manufacturers. They have now cracked the code and are making lenses that rival the Sigma and Tamron for much less.

Second I would point to the DJI Osmo pocket 3. They've officially moved past the action cam market. The OP3 has a 1" sensor and built in gimbal. It competes directly with the ZV-E10/R50 and from what I can tell out sells them both. While it has a smaller 1" sensor the built in gimbal gives it a much better picture if you're doing any kind of vlogging or video with movement. Once they figure out how to put an apsc sensor in this thing its going to be rough for Japan.

Also the software and connectivity of the OP3 is just light years better than anything coming out of Japan. This is where DJI really excels, the software. Conneting any major manufacturers camera to your phone is a complete pain. And we've basically hit a wall in image quality and manufacturers know that workflow and getting the images/videos posted to social media faster is the next big race.

David - Sydney said:
If there was an existential crisis with China taking over the camera market then the Japanese companies would combine to negate it. China is still being held back for higher end technologies whether chip manufacturing or AI etc and cameras have some high tech in sensors and processor/algorithms.

DJI already dominates the small camera market in Japan

https://photorumors.com/2024/10/28/dji-osmo-pocket-3-dominates-the-japanese-small-camera-market/

DJI-Osmo-Pocket-3-dominates-the-Japanese-small-gimbal-camera-market-1-copy-550x391.jpg

This is primarily due to them clingly to the old ways and not allowing DJI into CIPA. But look up any of the reviews on Youtube and you'll see that the OP3 is more in competition to the ZV-E10/R50 than a GoPro. It is essentially what Canon wanted the V10 to be.

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

CJaurelius said:
If you are making $68k/yr making youtube videos then paying a couple thousand more for an R5 instead of an R6 is going seems pretty resonable. And again after you take the tax deduction upgrading from an R5 to and R5mii will cost you maybe $2000. If your upgrading every 2 - 4 years your only paying $500 - $1000 a year to have the latest and greatest.

Thanks for reminding me how pointless it is to reply to your posts. Nice job moving the goalposts, not just back a few yards but to a field in the next county.

Love how you went from a guy with a gear cage containing ‘over hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear’ to spending $500-1000 per year. But thanks for (probably unintentionally) supporting my statement that while the typical YouTuber can afford $500-1000 per year, that demographic doesn't represent the 'cash cow' for Canon that you seem to think it does. You've been saying that content creators are spending big bucks, now you're saying that they (very reasonably) can spend <$1K/year on gear. That's well aligned with the spend in the pro photographer survey I mentioned above, as well. So evidently you're the one missing the plot...of your own story. That's pretty sad.

CJaurelius said:
The fact that you think Youtube and social media is some obscure entity is wild. Less than half of Gen Z watches broadcast television. And again, these companies are explicity stating they are going after this market.

Don't put words in my mouth. When have I said social media is obscure? That's rhetorical, I haven't. But I get that you need to set up a straw man to knock down. Good job with that.

Moving the goalposts, making false claims, setting up straw men...typical trolling. Go crawl back into your cave.

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
Thanks for reminding me how pointless it is to reply to your posts. Nice job moving the goalposts, not just back a few yards but to a field in the next county.

Love how you went from a guy with a gear cage containing ‘over hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear’ to spending $500-1000 per year. But thanks for (probably unintentionally) supporting my statement that while the typical YouTuber can afford $500-1000 per year, that demographic doesn't represent the 'cash cow' for Canon that you seem to think it does. You've been saying that content creators are spending big bucks, now you're saying that they (very reasonably) can spend <$1K/year on gear. That's well aligned with the spend in the pro photographer survey I mentioned above, as well. So evidently you're the one missing the plot...of your own story. That's pretty sad.

Again you complete misunderstand. What I'm saying is that IF you make $68K then spending $1400 more for a $3900 R5 isnt a big deal over a mid priced $2500 camera.

Then fast forward to 4 years later when the R5mii comes out at $4300. Most hobbyist aren't going to upgrade. However if you are still making $68k on Youtube, your going to deduct the cost so the $4300 camera is now $3,350. Then once you sell your current model for $1500 it really is going only cost you about $1850 to updrade. So if you keep the R5mii for 4 years it bascially cost you $462/yr.

So while the target camera for a hobbyist making $68k is probably buying an R8 once and maybe a lens over a 10 year period the Youtuber/Content Creator is probably spending $2-$5k every single year over a 10 year period.

I know several young people making around $75k that have 2 cameras, 3 -4 lenses, gimals, lights, mics, etc. All while renting and no 401k. But hey, they get work remote.

neuroanatomist said:
Incidentally, the average salary for a YouTuber is reported as $68K/yr, a bit less than that of the highest paid segment of professional photographers (arts/entertainment at $75K/yr). Again, not a revenue stream that supports tens of thousands of dollars of gear purchases. That’s the difference between data and anecdotes.

Since you think I'm putting words in your mouth let me ask you this. Do you think the future of cameras lies more in professional art/entertainment photogoraphers or more in Youtubers/Content Creators?

Where are these "professional" photographers printing these phtots? Young people don'l look at magazines, they don't look at traditional news outlets, broadcast tv, etc. Who is going to be their target audience in 20 years?

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

CJaurelius said:
So while the target camera for a hobbyist making $68k

Who cares? Besides you in terms of creating yet another straw man, I mean. My point was about the affluent amateur market driving sales. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word 'affluent'. Hint: making $68K/year is not affluent. Check the median salary for surgeons, as an example.

My point all along has been that people with high incomes not derived from photography, content creation, etc., are a major driver of high-margin sales for camera manufacturers. You are arguing that content creators are a major driver, and I provided data that they make no more than professional photographers...i.e., not that much.

Your anecdote about a YouTuber that has hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear is irrelevant. Annie Leibovitz makes north of $3M per year, and no doubt gets any camera gear she wants for free anyway. But unlike you, I'm not using her as an example to claim that professional photographers are driving sales of high end gear.

Honestly, I hope you're being intentionally obtuse. This isn't hard to grasp.

John Wilde · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
My point was about the affluent amateur market driving sales.

If they buy a high-end camera this year, how many years will it be before they buy another one? It seems to me that high-end cameras are an invitation to Last Camera Syndrome.

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

John Wilde said:
If they buy a high-end camera this year, how many years will it be before they buy another one? It seems to me that high-end cameras are an invitation to Last Camera Syndrome.

I'm sure Canon knows better than us. Personally, for my 'everyday' camera I bought a 1D X in 2012, then an R3 in 2021, then an R1 last month. But I also bought an R, an R8, and several EOS M bodies over that same period.

Regardless, the reality is that lens sales are bigger drivers of revenues and profits than body sales (according to both logic and Canon's financial presentations). Even one camera can be used with a lot of lenses...

As an anecdotal example consistent with what Canon has said, here is my personal spending on 'high-end' Canon gear (items >$1K) for the past four years:

Old Sarge · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
I'm sure Canon knows better than us. Personally, for my 'everyday' camera I bought a 1D X in 2012, then an R3 in 2021, then an R1 last month. But I also bought an R, an R8, and several EOS M bodies over that same period.

Regardless, the reality is that lens sales are bigger drivers of revenues and profits than body sales (according to both logic and Canon's financial presentations). Even one camera can be used with a lot of lenses...

As an anecdotal example consistent with what Canon has said, here is my personal spending on 'high-end' Canon gear (items >$1K) for the past four years:
View attachment 221334

You certainly didn't keep up with proper spending in 2022...you may have doomed Canon that year.

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

John Wilde said:
If they buy a high-end camera this year, how many years will it be before they buy another one? It seems to me that high-end cameras are an invitation to Last Camera Syndrome.

Yes that seems to be the logical assumption which is why they are moving to more expensive cameras. If you're not going to get volume you might as well increase margin as much as possible. Take a look at the recent upgrades to the top cameras. The main improvements are precapture, AI autofocus and a faster sensor readout/fps. While these quality of life improvements are beneficial to a professionals in specific circumstance I don't see them driving hobbyist out to upgrade.

Furthermore I know its harder for older people to accept change but what do they think young hobbyist are going to need or do with an epensive camera 20 years into the future? People don't print photos anymore and they aren't sitting in front of the tv to watch homemade videos. The consumption of photos/videos are through our phones and social media. How much improvement is needed when you'll only ever see the photo/video on a 6" screen?

Here is the household penetration rate from BCN in Japan:

https://www.bcnretail.com/market/detail/20241127_471096.html

So even though the decline of camera sales in Japan have bottomed out and is starting to rise minimally there continues to be less homes with digital cameras.

Here is the data broken out by age:

Outisde a minimal increase in people 29 and younger this year, the number of hoseholds with a digital camera if falling off a cliff. The people in their thirties should be the group that is growing the most if they were hobbyist as this is the age when they start to have the most discretionary income. But this group is actually dropping the fastest. The next biggest decrease is among 40 year olds. The group declining the most is the 70 year olds as it takes more time for the cultural shift to work its way up that far.

As the hobbyist/amateurs die off they are not being replaced.

"As mentioned earlier, the number of people taking pictures is definitely increasing due to the spread of smartphones. However, the statistics make it clear that the number of people taking serious pictures using digital cameras is decreasing."

CJaurelius · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
Who cares? Besides you in terms of creating yet another straw man, I mean. My point was about the affluent amateur market driving sales. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word 'affluent'. Hint: making $68K/year is not affluent. Check the median salary for surgeons, as an example.

I'm not creating a straw man, we just see it differently. You think affluent amateurs are driving the market, I think rise of Social Media/Content Creators are where the growth is coming from.

I'm highlighting that those Content Creators need less salary as they are buying equipment that generates their income stream. I make a lot more money than most of the Content Creators I know but they have a lot more camera gear than me. And I know even less people who I'd consider a hobbyist. Anecdotal I know but BCN data I posted seems to support it.

neuroanatomist said:
My point all along has been that people with high incomes not derived from photography, content creation, etc., are a major driver of high-margin sales for camera manufacturers. You are arguing that content creators are a major driver, and I provided data that they make no more than professional photographers...i.e., not that much.

Your anecdote about a YouTuber that has hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear is irrelevant. Annie Leibovitz makes north of $3M per year, and no doubt gets any camera gear she wants for free anyway. But unlike you, I'm not using her as an example to claim that professional photographers are driving sales of high end gear.

Honestly, I hope you're being intentionally obtuse. This isn't hard to grasp.

No doubt there are affluent people in pretty much any hobby. The question is how many of them are there? Annie Leibovitz is 75 years old so I don't think she will be buying many cameras in 20 years. As you go down in age there appears to be less affluent hobbyist. I know it can be tough when the world moves on.

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

Old Sarge said:
You certainly didn't keep up with proper spending in 2022...you may have doomed Canon that year.

Canon has no one to blame but themselves. I’ve got a fat gear fund just waiting, the R1 and a new 16” M4 Pro MacBook Pro barely put a dent in it. They need to release lenses that I want to buy. Or else suffer the consequences.

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

John Wilde said:
If they buy a high-end camera this year

Incidentally, while high-end cameras typically have higher profit margins, its worth noting in that context that the average unit price of ILCs shipped this year is $725, and if you exclude the shrinking DSLR market that value only goes up to $795. That means the majority of buyers are still buying low-end cameras.

David - Sydney · Dec 9, 2024

CJaurelius said:
Yes that seems to be the logical assumption which is why they are moving to more expensive cameras. If you're not going to get volume you might as well increase margin as much as possible. Take a look at the recent upgrades to the top cameras. The main improvements are precapture, AI autofocus and a faster sensor readout/fps. While these quality of life improvements are beneficial to a professionals in specific circumstance I don't see them driving hobbyist out to upgrade.

I might not upgrade to the R5ii in the near term as my R5 is working just fine and I would need to upgrade my housing but I would use those new benefits in the future for sure. I am not a professional. I would definitely be upgrading to a R5iii if I haven't already to a R5 when it is released assuming I am still standing.

CJaurelius said:
Furthermore I know its harder for older people to accept change but what do they think young hobbyist are going to need or do with an epensive camera 20 years into the future? People don't print photos anymore and they aren't sitting in front of the tv to watch homemade videos. The consumption of photos/videos are through our phones and social media. How much improvement is needed when you'll only ever see the photo/video on a 6" screen?

What would most people do with a 20 year old piece of tech? They would either upgrade over time or not replace it at all. The world is littered with examples.
Young people seem to be discovering vinyl records... who would have thought.
After post processing a bunch of iphone 15/16 and RP and R5 images together yesterday, the image quality difference at social media resolutions was obvious even besides the focus and shutter speed problems. No one will be printing them but money does buy better quality in general.

David - Sydney · Dec 9, 2024

CJaurelius said:
Here is the household penetration rate from BCN in Japan:
So even though the decline of camera sales in Japan have bottomed out and is starting to rise minimally there continues to be less homes with digital cameras.
Here is the data broken out by age:

Outisde a minimal increase in people 29 and younger this year, the number of hoseholds with a digital camera if falling off a cliff. The people in their thirties should be the group that is growing the most if they were hobbyist as this is the age when they start to have the most discretionary income. But this group is actually dropping the fastest. The next biggest decrease is among 40 year olds. The group declining the most is the 70 year olds as it takes more time for the cultural shift to work its way up that far.

Data is scarce but cherry picking one country to show a global trend is problematic.
Japan is fairly unique due to: very high life expectancy, very low inflation/wage growth for 30 years, fast adopters of technology but prone to outliers eg R1 as #1 on Yodobashi sales.
Households in general have decreased their ownership of a camera due to phone uptake. Japan was the first to commercially add cameras to phones for instance.

Even if 70 is the new 60, I don't see any decline as being "cultural". I would suggest that 70 year olds are taking many more photos on their phones than ever before but probably won't use a PC to download and edit them.

People in their 30/40s are getting financially squeezed on both sides needing to care for both elderly parents and children (if any) so disposable income can be tight there. We are spending more on children now than ever before.

CJaurelius said:
As the hobbyist/amateurs die off they are not being replaced.

I'm not sure where you are really going with your arguments.
People are living longer with better health so retirees are growing as a cohort. Many with time and money on their hands.
Canon are forecasting growth so they are doing something right even with a catastrophic change in both consumption and technology.
Canon should have better options for video content creators at the lower end and simultaneously a retro design appealing to different segments of the market. This thread is precisely saying that.
Demand for Canon products are exceeding supply for many items that have high profits so why the angst?

David - Sydney · Dec 9, 2024

neuroanatomist said:
Who cares? Besides you in terms of creating yet another straw man, I mean. My point was about the affluent amateur market driving sales. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word 'affluent'. Hint: making $68K/year is not affluent. Check the median salary for surgeons, as an example.

I concur....
My anecdotal data point was a recent workshop where 3 of the 10 participants were doctors (GP, emergency, and ENT consultant specialist). All had high end gear.
Some others that were retired had even more gear eg dual A1s, 600/4 plus other stuff. Only 1 younger person there and they were there on a grant and didn't have expensive gear.

There is/are a lot of boomers retiring with a disproportionate level of disposable income plus physical capabilities. Clearly that drops as they get older.
For the current younger crowd, the current cost of living crisis in developed countries is a real issue for disposable income. They will still buy decent phones but harder to justify non-income producing gear.

neuroanatomist · Dec 9, 2024

David - Sydney said:
Data is scarce but cherry picking one country to show a global trend is problematic.

Like moving goalposts and straw man arguments, cherry-picking data is a typical troll tactic.

David - Sydney said:
Canon are forecasting growth so they are doing something right even with a catastrophic change in both consumption and technology. Canon should have better options for video content creators at the lower end…

@CJaurelius has tried (unsuccessfully) several times to argue that Canon is being outcompeted by Sony because of Sony’s focus on the ‘younger, content-creating YouTubers. He’s made graphs (carefully selecting the years), he’s used bogus data (he totally swallowed the false report about Canon losing significant market share based on 2022 total camera share vs 2023 mirrorless share, then doubled down it even when shown the source was wrong).

All par for the course for an internet troll.

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